....and a thread blows out of proportion. Over at Big Bad Baby Names, someone started a thread asking whether they should have a plus woman thread where they can discuss their issues. I replied on the thread that perhaps there should be one about petites as well. Posters there got upset at me. I then started a spin-off thread asking about petites. People are now even angrier. This is exactly why petite women have to discuss their issues more often. If we don't, people will not take us and our issues seriously, and things will go out of proportion. The petite issue is already misunderstood and if we don't talk/bind together, nothing will be solved. Seriously, do you guys really like it when they think you're 15 years old?
NOTE: You have to be a member of the board to read the links.
Showing posts with label height discrimination. Show all posts
Showing posts with label height discrimination. Show all posts
RE: Height discrimination vs weight discrimination
Here's a new response from a post dated October 8, 2008 :
It's great to see that other women of a more diminuitive stature are beginning to speak out.
I have just lost my job because of my height!I have been working for an international airline for the past 11 years. I was a Cabin Crew manager. Recently there was a departmental restructure whereby we would have to reapply for our positions. In addition we would be required to fly once or twice a month as extra crew to carry out assessments.After I had applied and been given an interview date I was told that I needed to do a height test - I came in at 6millimetres below 5ft 2 so my interview was cancelled and I am now unemployed.
Although I appreciate that there has to be a height limit because of reaching the hat racks - however I asked if I could take a reach test on the basis that who is to say that my reach isn't the same as someone who is just 5ft2? Furthermore I would not be operating as Crew - this was not granted because there is no law to protect smaller people in the workplace. if I had been just 5ft 2 and a size 22 then that would have been fine (although being such a size would not facilitate an easy evacuation from the aircraft!!) because there is legislation regarding weight. Just because it is not law doesn't mean it's not discrimination.And yes it is soooo difficult to get the same clothes as the taller women have access to as most petite ranges are awful but it's fine if you are large!!!!!!
Note to original poster: I don't know what jurisdiction you live in, but height discrimination is against the Ontario Human Rights Code (not sure if there's a rule in other parts of Canada). If you're in Michigan, you might have a discrimination case as well.
What do you think of this issue, readers?
It's great to see that other women of a more diminuitive stature are beginning to speak out.
I have just lost my job because of my height!I have been working for an international airline for the past 11 years. I was a Cabin Crew manager. Recently there was a departmental restructure whereby we would have to reapply for our positions. In addition we would be required to fly once or twice a month as extra crew to carry out assessments.After I had applied and been given an interview date I was told that I needed to do a height test - I came in at 6millimetres below 5ft 2 so my interview was cancelled and I am now unemployed.
Although I appreciate that there has to be a height limit because of reaching the hat racks - however I asked if I could take a reach test on the basis that who is to say that my reach isn't the same as someone who is just 5ft2? Furthermore I would not be operating as Crew - this was not granted because there is no law to protect smaller people in the workplace. if I had been just 5ft 2 and a size 22 then that would have been fine (although being such a size would not facilitate an easy evacuation from the aircraft!!) because there is legislation regarding weight. Just because it is not law doesn't mean it's not discrimination.And yes it is soooo difficult to get the same clothes as the taller women have access to as most petite ranges are awful but it's fine if you are large!!!!!!
Note to original poster: I don't know what jurisdiction you live in, but height discrimination is against the Ontario Human Rights Code (not sure if there's a rule in other parts of Canada). If you're in Michigan, you might have a discrimination case as well.
What do you think of this issue, readers?
Leg Lengthening Surgery Revisited
According to this article, 29-year-old British lawyer, Sara Vornamen had leg extension surgery to maker her taller. She was, like many petites, tired of not being taken seriously at work. This surgery increased her from a petite 5' even to 5'3". With an addition of only three inches, she is still petite, though not as short as she was at her "natural height." She still doesn't fit into clothes properly, though her legs may be long enough for "regular" length pants. Do you think it was worth it? I'm not so sure it is. First of all, she's still on the short side, and secondly, this surgery is not only expensive, but also painful and risky. Who wants screws in one's legs for months? And the scaring. Besides, most countries won't perform this surgery for cosmetic reasons. Sara had to travel to Russia for the procedure.
Public Input: Why aren't we heard?
This is a question I want to put out to everyone, and rather than a poll, I'd like to actually hear comments. The question is this:
Unlike other body image blogs, why are media so quiet about us?
Short and Male - A video about heightism in China
We all know that it's worse for guys, but try being a guy in China. Guys under 5'5" are considered "disabled" by some (according to the video, anyway)!
However, I noticed that there's nothing about women there, but I know that women have height issues there too. Of course, the height requirements are probably lower, since women are, on average, shorter. However, there isn't much about short women's issues. I'm still trying to find a video about height issues women face, other than the ones Petite Fashionista or I make. Anyone know any?
July Shorty Stories Survey Results
24% said: Yes! I usually add one or two inches.
2% said: Yes, but since I'm tall, I take away an inch or two.
24% said: Not usually!
AND AN OVERWHELMING 50% said: No, I'm proud of my height
This month: Do you wear capris?
A height tax?
A New York Times article published last month questioned the need of a height tax because shorter people generally earn less than taller people. For example, a 5'5" American earns more than $5,000 less than someone who is 6' tall, even after factoring in age, sex and weight (I'm assuming they mean proportional.) I haven't read the entire study, but technically, aren't governments technically taxing on height based on general income bracket? Studies have do show that shorter people are less likely to hold higher positions, though I don't always agree with the reasons why. For example, I don't think shorter people have a lower IQ. If that's the case, then where does the "dumb jock" stereotype come from? The stereotypical "dumb jock" is a big, tall guy. I also don't agree that taller people were better nourished as children. I do, however, believe that we're less likely seen as a candidate for promotion because of heightism, which leads to shorter people earning less. But when you earn less, you could be in a different tax bracket, meaning you'd be taxed differently anyway.
Greg Mankiw and Matthew Weinzierl, the two men who circulated the working paper on tax and height, don't exactly endorse this system either. They just wanted to clarify the general public's view on tax in general.
Greg Mankiw and Matthew Weinzierl, the two men who circulated the working paper on tax and height, don't exactly endorse this system either. They just wanted to clarify the general public's view on tax in general.
Heightism petition from NOSSA - END HEIGHT DISCRIMINATION
The National Organization of Short Statured Adults, based out of New York, has an online petition aimed at the entertainment industry. I don't know how long this has been up, but it only has 168 signatures as of 7:40 Eastern Time this morning. Many say that heightism is one of the only remaining forms of discrimination that people accept - to many people, calling someone "shorty" isn't as insulting as calling an overweight person a "pig." But it does make some shorter people insecure. We are a society obsessed with being tall and yes, the entertainment industry has much to do with it. How many award-winning actors have been short? How many shorter actors get major dramatic roles? Not many. Shorter people are usually given comedic roles or, if dramatic, "real person" roles. This seriously contributed to our society's dislike of shortness.
Many super-short kids (according to the petition and the FDA, "super short" would be girls who have a predicted height of 4'11" or shorter and boys whose predicted height is 5'3" or shorter) are given hormone treatments. But should these kids be given treatment if they don't have any other health issues? The treatment is not only painful, but expensive, at $20,000 US annually. In some parts of the world, people are getting surgery to extend their legs because local laws allow height discrimination for jobs that don't require one to be a certain height (I can understand why some bars and clothing stores want "models who serve" or "models who sell" but I'm talking about working at an office.) The corporate world doesn't need "models who manage." The corporate world needs managers. Period. Height discrimination needs to end, not only in the fashion industry (which this and other petite-related sites seem to focus on), but socially and career-wise too. We need to stop treating shortness as a problem. We need to stop thinking that short people are some how inferior, and this starts with the media, since they are such a major influence (whether we like it or not) in our lives.
Other short-related petitions:
A More Petite Friendly Fashion Industry
Short is Beautiful - Canada's Next Top Model Height Restriction
Petition for a Petite Forum at Lou Lou (this one hasn't seen much activity, unfortunately)
Many super-short kids (according to the petition and the FDA, "super short" would be girls who have a predicted height of 4'11" or shorter and boys whose predicted height is 5'3" or shorter) are given hormone treatments. But should these kids be given treatment if they don't have any other health issues? The treatment is not only painful, but expensive, at $20,000 US annually. In some parts of the world, people are getting surgery to extend their legs because local laws allow height discrimination for jobs that don't require one to be a certain height (I can understand why some bars and clothing stores want "models who serve" or "models who sell" but I'm talking about working at an office.) The corporate world doesn't need "models who manage." The corporate world needs managers. Period. Height discrimination needs to end, not only in the fashion industry (which this and other petite-related sites seem to focus on), but socially and career-wise too. We need to stop treating shortness as a problem. We need to stop thinking that short people are some how inferior, and this starts with the media, since they are such a major influence (whether we like it or not) in our lives.
Other short-related petitions:
A More Petite Friendly Fashion Industry
Short is Beautiful - Canada's Next Top Model Height Restriction
Petition for a Petite Forum at Lou Lou (this one hasn't seen much activity, unfortunately)
Short issues through the eyes of the media - It's NOT just a guy thing
Notice that whenever the media talk about heightism, it focuses predominantly on shorter men. It's the guys who have the trouble dating, getting higher salaries or being promoted to senior management or executive. Is it just me, or is this a form of sexism? Now, most people will say that shorter women have an easier time, and I do agree with them, but it doesn't mean that short women don't have problems (outside of fashion) too. For example, petite women are often cited as being more likely to be married with kids by the time they reach their 40s. OK, but many people associate a "wife and mother" with the home, and not the work place or the party scene. It sounds like people are trying to say that petite women are, well, boring (I know that there are plenty of petite celebs who are well known in the party scene, but Hollywood and the music industry are very different when it comes to the public and private spheres.) The stereotypical lady at the charity ball is NOT petite. She's also a SECOND wife of some very wealthy guy, and USUALLY NOT PETITE (though that wealthy guy's first wife may very well be.) There is also little talk about women and work. Most articles about being short and how much short people earn focus on men. Whenver they talk about women earning less, it's about women as a whole or broken down to ethnic groups, rather than height. Same with work. I have very rarely read, heard or seen anything about height in relation to the speed of promotion for women. And I'm a little tired of the media not bringing women's height issues to the spotlight.
Donald Trump calls George Clooney "short": Using height as an insult
This happened on The Donald's recent appearance on Larry King Live last week (read a bit of the conversation here.) I know The Donald's The Donald and likes to be mean to others, but to call George Clooney short is crazy. The man is 5'11, according to IMDB (though Larry said he's more like 5'10") By no means is that short in North America. George is average in height. I guess it's a jealousy thing. Donald Trump is by no means hot! In any shape or form. So the only way The Donald (who is 6'2", according to IMDB) can insult George is to call him short (saying that George Clooney makes mediocre films doesn't hurt as much.) Our society sees short men as something negative. Short men aren't sexy. Even average heighted guys like George aren't usually seen as "sexy" as a taller man with the exact same qualities.
As petite women, we apparently have it better. We're often called "cute." It's supposed to be a positive thing. But is it? Is it fair that a woman older than 25 be "cute?" Isn't it just as insulting as calling a very attractive man of average height, short? Cute is for puppies and children, not grown-ups.
As petite women, we apparently have it better. We're often called "cute." It's supposed to be a positive thing. But is it? Is it fair that a woman older than 25 be "cute?" Isn't it just as insulting as calling a very attractive man of average height, short? Cute is for puppies and children, not grown-ups.
Taller women win...:-(
....at least when it comes to acting awards. The total average of all acting awards (Golden Globes will be broken into two categories, television and film), is: a little over 5'6", with television Oscar winners being the tallest in the past seven years. While the average certainly isn't supermodel tall, just slightly above the average-average height of North American women, it isn't petite either. In fact, when it comes to Oscar winners, the two truely petite women, Reese Witherspoon and Helen Mirren, won for playing real people (interesting note: June Carter-Cash was actually 5'5 1/2" at her full height, making her 3 1/2" taller than Reese! Elizabeth II is 5'4", the same as Helen Mirren.). Another thing to point out is that the petite women have a much better chance to win if awards are separated into comedy and drama categories. The average heights of leading actress winners in the comedy/musical categories are:
- 5'6" (Golden Globes-film)
- 5'4 1/2" (Golden Globes-television.....Sarah Jessica Parker won three times in this category, but the stats don't change much even if you only count her once.)
- 5'3 3/4" (Emmys)
Compare that to women who won in the drama categories:
- approx. 5'6 1/2" (Golden Globes-film)
- a little under 5'8" (Golden Globes-television)
- around 5'6 1/3" (Emmys)
So it looks like Hollywood is not very accepting of shorter women in dramatic roles. That petite actresses can only succeed in girl-next-door/spunky gal type roles (e.g. Carrie, Betty, etc...) unless the dramatic role is that of a "real person." This "short women not taken seriously" syndrome not only exists in Hollywood, but outside as well. Take a look at your place of work, and see which women are "in charge." Are the female senior managers and executives mostly taller? There are plenty of stats and stories about height discrimination and men, that shorter men make less money than their taller counterparts, but little has been done for women. Perhaps there just isn't enough information right now, since women are only beginning to get very senior level jobs (and getting rid of mandatory retirement in certain jurisdictions isn't really helping us break the so-called "glass ceiling") It might have to do with clothing too. Taller women require fewer alterations (if at all) to their clothes. There are some things that can't be altered, so the item would look more ill-fitting on shorter women, but some people in the fashion industry don't really "get it." (Laurie Roe of the Petite Boutique explains about petite misconceptions in her blog.)
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